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Every disappearance has a final moment of certainty, a last sighting,
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a last call, a last place someone was known to be.
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The last known tells real true crime cases using only
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the facts.
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Today, we are taking on a really tough case. It's
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a cold case that for almost a quarter century has
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just haunted North Carolina and really the entire country.
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We're talking about the disappearance of nine year old Asha Degree.
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Exactly, and it is a profound mystery. Aja vanished from
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her family's home in Shelby, North Carolina, in the very early,
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very dark hours of Valentine's Day, February fourteenth, two thousand.
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It's one of those cases where the facts just seem
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to fight each other. You have this shy, cautious little
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girl who supposedly just walks out of her house all alone,
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into a cold and stormy night. It doesn't make sense
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on its face.
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And our sources for this deep dive they've given us
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a kind of dual mission today, and we really need
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to dedicate some serious time to both sides of this.
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On the one hand, we're going to be dissecting the
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very recent, very aggressive investigative moves. We're talking specifically about
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the intense scrutiny on a local family. The dead means
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they've been the subject of search warrants that were issued
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as recently as late twenty twenty four and even into
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early twenty twenty five. So this shows the cases it's
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anything but dormant, it's.
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Very much alive. But on the other hand, and this
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is just as important, we have to contextualize this entire investigation.
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We're pulling from extensive, very current criminal justice data from
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North Carolina.
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Why is that so important because it.
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Helps us understand the environment, the environment where the original
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investigation took place and where this current cold case review
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is unfolding. We're talking about huge systemic challenges unsolved violent crime,
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how resources get allocated, and the really sobering reality for
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vulnerable kids in that state.
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So our goal here, what we're really trying to unpack,
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is the conflict in the narratives. You have the story
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presented by the Degree family on that morning back in
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two thousand and then you have this very complex, very
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controversial theory is being laid out in these modern search warrants.
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And through it all, we want to help you understand
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the massive hurdles. Investigator's face one of cases this high profile,
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but also this fragmented by time and just so many
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conflicting details.
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Okay, so let's start the clock right at the moment
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of discovery. We're on the morning of February fourteenth, two thousand,
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Valentine's Day, and.
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The scene is already a bit unusual. Asha's disappearance happened
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after a power outage the night before. Some people have
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speculated that this might have you know, masked the sound
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of someone either coming into the house or leaving it.
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Right. So, Asha's mother, a coula degree, She wakes up
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at five four five am the alarm for the kids
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to get up and get ready for school that was
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set for six thirty am, and.
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That window, that little nine minute period between six thirty
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am when it goes to wake the children and six
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thirty nine am, when the nine one one call is
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actually placed, that nine minutes is just pure chaos.
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It's defined by this frantic, almost desperate activity, which right
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from the jump introduced huge complications of the police response.
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Huge complications.
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So at six point thirty, Equilla goes in and immediately
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sees that Asha isn't in her bed. This is the
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bed she shared with her older brother O'Brien.
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And her reaction, from all accounts, was just immediate, raw panic.
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She described basically tearing the house apart. She's checking the couch,
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She's searching the downstairs area, looking in the kitchen, ripping
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open every single closet door.
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She even checks the family cars outside.
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Right and while Aquilla is in the middle of this
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frantic search, she wakes up Harold, Asha's father. His first thought,
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his initial suggestion was that maybe Asha had just gone
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across the road to his mother's house.
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A simple explanation, a.
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Simple logical explanation. So they call a sister in law's house,
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but nothing. Every quick attempt to find her just fails,
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and you can feel that hope just evaporating minute by minute.
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And that's when the private panic becomes very very public.
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According to interviews, Aquila runs outside at first, she doesn't
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even have shoes on. She runs back in, throws them on,
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She talks to a neighbor. She calls her own mother
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for help, and her mom tells her, you have to
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call the police now.
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And this next detail is just so visceral. Equila describes
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her reaction as just primal. She says she threw the
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phone at Harold and just ran back outside, screaming Ash's
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name up and down.
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The street, which brings us to the nine one one call.
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Harold places the call at six three nine am, and
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this is where the narrative for a lot of commentators
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and even investigators starts to feel unsettling.
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Deeply unsettling. His phrasing, I'd like to report a child missing.
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It was described as just so impersonal, so strange. It
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lacked that raw desperate edge you would just you'd expect
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it from a parent whose nine year old has just
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vanished into thin air. Minutes before.
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I remember reading about that call in the analysis. It
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immediately drew these comparisons to the infamous Patsy Ramsey nine
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one one call from back at nineteen ninety six. Yes, exactly.
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And the issue wasn't just a perceived lack of panic.
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It was the formality of it. When parent calls nine
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one one about a missing child, you usually hear an
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explosion of just uncontrolled fear. Harold's language almost suggested he
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was reporting an instant, you know, like a fender bender,
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rather than living through a.
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Crisis, and that, whether it's fair or not, it immediately
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started fueling public speculation about the parent's credibility, and.
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The strange details didn't stop with the poising, not at all.
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He gives the wrong initial address to the dispatcher. First
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he says three four oh four, Then he corrects himself
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to apartment three four oh six.
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But three four oh six wasn't even their apartment, right, No.
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That's where his brother LeRoi lived. For police and investigators,
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you see and address mix up like that isn't just
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a simple mistake. It immediately suggests one of two things,
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either an extreme, almost debilitating level of stress, or, as.
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Some of the darker theories suggest, it's a distraction, a
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lack of complete focus during what should be the most
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critical moment of your life.
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There's also this subtle, but I think really important detail
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on the call. The dispatcher almost immediately assumes the gender
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of the child.
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Right, Harold hasn't said if it's a boy or a girl.
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He just says a child. Yet the dispatcher asks, okay,
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is she missing before Harold confirms his asha.
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So what does that suggest? I mean, maybe there was
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some prior knowledge from an officer who is already nearby,
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or a neighbor who had already called something in or
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maybe it was just something in the way Harold phrased
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the report that somehow implied the child's identity. It's another
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little piece that just doesn't quite fit.
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And then you have the sounds on the call itself.
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The audio details are contradictory.
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They are the transcript notes that you can hear crying
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or talking in the background while Harold's on the phone.
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But a Quilla's statement is very specific. She said she
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threw the phone at Harold and was outside screaming Asha's
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name at that exact moment.
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So if a Quilla is outside screaming, who is crying
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or talking inside?
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Well, O'Bryant the brother, he had been woken up by
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then it could have been him. But that discrepancy again,
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it immediately leads to questions about who was actually inside
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the home and what the true second by second timeline
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of Arns really was.
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Okay, but let's get to maybe the most crucial piece
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of information that Harold gives during that nine one one call.
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This is the detail that really cemented the initial runaway
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theory for the police.
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He tells them her backpack and her pocketbook are missing.
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The backpack in the pocketbook that suggests she left willingly right,
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that she packed a bag, that she was prepared to
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be gone for a little while.
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It does, but that point immediately created a major contradiction
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within the family's own narrative. How so, because Iquila later
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said in interviews that she hadn't noticed the backpack was
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missing until much later in the day. She said she
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was in such a state of sheer panics, she just
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she didn't see it.
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So Harold noticed it immediately, but Equill it didn't.
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It was actually O'Brian, the brother, who provided the most
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detailed observation. He was the one who said he noticed
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the tweetybird purse and the backpack were gone. He had
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this very specific detail. He said, Asha kept her bag tight,
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always hanging in the exact same spot in her closet,
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so its absence was immediately obvious to him when he
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woke up.
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So we have the brother noticing the missing bags, the
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father reporting the missing on the nine one one call
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almost instantly, but the mother says she didn't notice them
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until hours later.
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It just paints this picture of a family unit under
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just unimaginable stress, and in that stress, the basic facts
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of the morning just weren't aligning.
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But there's a huge omission here, a piece of logic
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that just doesn't track with the runaway theory.
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The coat.
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The coat. She's packing a bag. If she's intending to
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run away into what was described as a cold, rainy,
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stormy North Carolina night in February.
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You think she would take a coat. It's just basic
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survival instinct. But the striking omission that Harold failed to
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mention on the call and which was later confirmed, was
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that Asha's coat was still in the house.
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So what's the implication of that. Let's break that down.
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If she left on her own willingly, then not taking
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a coat is a massive, massive lapse in judgment for
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a nine year old walking into what were likely near
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freezing temperature.
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That if she was taken, if someone her quickly, the
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missing coat suggests urgency or staging. It suggests something happened
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so fast that dressing for the weather was either not
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possible or just wasn't relevant to the person taking her.
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So for investigators, that one detail, the missing coat, it's crucial.
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It completely undermines the idea of a prepared runaway, and
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it leans much more heavily toward the possibility that she
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was taken from the home. That one detail complicated the
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entire runaway classification right from the very beginning.
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All right, So moving away from the chaos of the
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immediate scene, we get into this period of just deeply
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contradictory sightings and very strange evidence. This is what really
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solidified the confusing nature of this case for decades.
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The timeline of the sightings alone is just, yeah, it's perplexing.
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It's almost counterintuitive to how you think an investigation should go.
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It really is.
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You basically have two key sets of sightings from that morning,
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and they are separated by hours. The primary sightings, the
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ones that got the most media attention, were reported by
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truckers and they saw her allegedly around two thirty am.
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They placed a child matching Asha's description walking by herself
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on Highway eighteen, which was four miles from her home.
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Wait, two point thirty in the morning, four miles from home. Yeah,
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for a nine year old. That is incredibly early and
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just an unbelievable distance for a small child to travel
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alone in the dark.
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And in a storm. But then hours later, at the
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time of the nine one one call, So around six
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thirty am, Harold tells the dispatcher something completely different. He says,
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the next door neighbor said she went down the road
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and she said she'd just seen a kid down the road.
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Okay, let's unpack that timing, because it makes no sense.
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The neighbor sighting allegedly happened right around the time the
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parents discovered she was missing. That would suggest she hadn't
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gone very far at all exactly. So, if a neighbor's
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telling you they just saw a kid down the road,
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and you're already in a frantic state, why didn't either
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parent just sprint down the road to check, especially Equilla,
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who was already described as running up and down the
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street screaming Asha's name.
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That is the precise question that casts so much suspicion
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around that neighbor sighting. It doesn't add up. If the
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child was that close and Aquila was out there searching,
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why didn't the neighbor intervene at six thirty am upon
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seeing a small child walking alone in the cold rain?
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And why did we never hear about this sighting? Again,
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It's like it just vanished from the official narrative.
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One commentator suggests that the police might have just quickly
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dismissed the neighbor as being mistaken, or that the sighting
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itself was just deemed irrelevant compared to the much earlier
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long distance reports from the truckers on the highway.
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So the focus quickly shifted back to those two thirty
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am sightings, the ones from the truckers who saw a
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little girl in a long sleeved white shirt and dark
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pants walking against the wind in the rain.
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And that sighting reinforced the idea that she had left
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hours before her parents ever noticed. It pushed the timeline
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back towards an intentional departure, even though the distance she
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would have had to travel in that weather is just
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it's baffling, which.
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Brings us back to this really dificult runaway profile. Asha
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was nine. She was generally described by everyone as shy,
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as cautious, a good student. Why on earth would a
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child like that runaway?
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Here's where it gets really interesting when you dig into
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the nuances of her personality. Commentators noted that while she
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was shy, she also had this known spirited side.
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What does that mean?
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Well, she was a fierce basketball player, and apparently she
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had been foul out of a game shortly before she
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disappeared and it had deeply, deeply upset her. So that
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suggests she had a real emotional depth, the capacity for
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very strong reactions.
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But does being upset about a basketball game translate into
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leaving your home in the middle of a storm.
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That's the leap that's so hard to make. And her mother, Aquila,
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she insisted that Asha left of her own free will.
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That was a conclusion that many people found very strange,
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given her age and just all the circumstances.
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And what about a note. In so many true runaway cases,
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you find a note. It's the child's way of explaining
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their distress.
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And Asha supposedly loved to write. Yet no runaway note
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was ever found, which again really complicates the idea that
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this was an intentional, self initiated departure.
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And then a full year later, the central piece of
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physical evidence finally emerges, and it shifts the entire narrative
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of the case.
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The backpack. It was recovered off Highway eighteen, about twenty
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miles north of her home, buried under some construction debris.
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In the contents. The contents were just so specific and so.
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Strange, deeply significant. The backpack contained two key items, A
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doctor Seuss book that was checked out from her local
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school library.
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And a new Kids on the Block T shirt that
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did not belong to her.
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That shirt is the lynchpin. Why would a nine year
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old girl in the year two thousand have a shirt
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from a popular boy band from the late eighties and
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early nineties and one that wasn't even hers.
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The discovery just dramatically shifted the entire investigative theory. It
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moved away from a simple spontaneous runaway event and straight
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into a potential abduction and grooming.
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There, law enforcement started to theorize that she might have
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been lured, lured by someone she knew, or maybe someone
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driving a green vehicle which was noted by a witness later.
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On, someone who might have arranged to meet her days
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in advance, maybe using the promise of a gift like
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that T shirt.
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And then the investigation took another turn when they focused
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00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:22.039
on this specific shed location. Inside that shed, investigators down
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00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:25.679
more ambiguous items. They found candy wrappers and a mysterious
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photo of another unidentified young girl.
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00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:30.799
So now you have this non family T shirt in
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00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:33.480
these items in a shed, and it all suggests this
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00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:38.399
much deeper, much darker context. A context that involves potential grooming,
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maybe even exploitation, right.
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And the presence of that photo of another child. It
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00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:46.320
led to this theory that maybe Asha was lured or
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groomed using another child victim, perhaps the girl in the photo,
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or maybe by someone connected to that unusual NKOTB shirt,
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suggesting an adult with you know, connections to the local
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area and the child's habits, like knowing she went to
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that life.
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00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:02.440
But we have to be really careful here about the
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shed items, right, They're not a slam dunk.
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00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:07.799
It is absolutely crucial to note the ambiguity the candy
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00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:10.960
wrappers and the photo. They cannot be directly linked to
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Asha with any reliable forensic evidence. The only item that
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00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:17.120
her mother mentioned might have been Asha's and was found
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near that shed was a yellow.
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Hairbo A single yellow hairbo that is a.
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Very very thin evidentiary thread to connect the contents of
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the backpack which was found twenty miles away a year
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later to this specific remote location. That ambiguity is what
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00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:36.399
makes building a watertight case so incredibly challenging even all
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these years later.
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And that brings us right up to the present day.
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I mean, for twenty five years, this case has been cold,
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but the reason activity proves that authorities are aggressively pursuing
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a very specific lead.
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This includes two really high profile search horrants. One was
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issued in September of twenty twenty four and another just
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recently in February of twenty twenty five, and they are
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specifically targeting one family.
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The Deadman's warrants they implicated the parents Roy and Connie
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00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.159
Deadman and also their daughters Lizzie, Grace, Sarah, and Ennilye Deadman.
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00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:09.799
And it's so vital for you, the listener, to understand
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the legal framework here. The theories that are presented in
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00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:16.039
a search warrant. They're put forward to establish probable cause.
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What does that mean exactly?
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It means they have to show a reasonable basis to
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search or to investigate. It does not require the very
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00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:25.559
high standard of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. It's
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a much lower bar.
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00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:29.120
Okay. So what's the core of the theory? What did
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00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:30.480
the warrants lay out?
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The core of the investigative theory as it's presented in
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those warrants, it centers on the alleged involvement of the
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00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:39.679
Deadman family, and police are focusing on two things, a
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specific vehicle and some alleged forensic evidence.
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The vehicle, they theorized it was a nineteen sixty four
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amc Rambler registered to the father Roy Deadman.
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00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:53.399
Yes, But the spokesperson for the Deadmon family, a man
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00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:56.879
named Skip Foster, he has come out very aggressively and
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00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:00.159
very publicly to challenge the foundational evidence that's presented in
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those warrants.
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00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.200
And his argument starts with the vehicle itself, right.
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00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:06.079
It starts with the most basic conflict, the description of
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00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:09.559
the vehicle. Eyewitnesses back in two thousand, they originally described
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00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:12.519
a nineteen seventies green Link and Thunderbird. That is a
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00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:16.039
substantially different car, different make, different model, different decade from
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00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.799
the nineteen sixty four amc Rambler that the police are
365
00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:19.559
now focusing on.
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That feels like a fundamental problem for establishing probable cause.
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00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:27.759
If your original eyewitness accounts, the ones that define the
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00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:31.440
suspect's vehicle for years, are so drastically different from the
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00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:34.960
one ye're now linking to a suspect, that immediately introduces
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00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:37.519
a huge amount of doubt about that vehicle's involvement.
371
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It's a massive discrepancy. But the vehicle description isn't even
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00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:43.720
the biggest problem when it comes to the timeline, Foster
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00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:47.400
highlighted something that's frankly critical the transfer date of that
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00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:50.119
AMC rambler, the one mentioned in the affidavits.
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It was flawed, flawed.
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00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:56.000
How it happened one month after Usha's disappearance in February
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of two thousand.
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00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:58.559
Wait a minute, so you're saying the official record show
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00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:00.920
that Roy Deadman didn't even own own the car at
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00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:02.359
the time Oshwa was abducted.
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00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:05.359
According to Foster, the transfer didn't happen until March of
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00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:05.960
two thousand.
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00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:10.240
So if the affidavit for the search warrant included a
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00:18:10.279 --> 00:18:15.640
detail that fundamentally undermines the vehicle's supposed involvement, namely that
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00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.680
the suspect didn't officially own it yet, how did that
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00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:21.559
warran get signed. Does that suggest it a lack of
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00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:25.279
rigor in the probable cause presentation or were they just
388
00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:28.599
relying on other evidence so heavily that they overlooked this
389
00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:29.440
massive gap.
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00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:32.440
It suggests the investigators must have been leaning very heavily
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00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:37.359
on other non chronological evidence, mostly likely witness testimony or
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00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:40.000
the alleged DNA connection. We're about to get to, but
393
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:43.359
from a legal perspective, the defense now has this immediate
394
00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:46.640
huge hole they can poke in the Warren's credibility. Foster
395
00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:49.400
calls it a big problem because it just critically compromises
396
00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:52.079
the link between Roy Deadman and the initial abduction event.
397
00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:54.279
Okay, so let's move to the other pillar of their case,
398
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:55.759
the DNA evidence.
399
00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:58.440
Right, Ann only Deadman, one of the daughters, who would
400
00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:00.960
have been thirteen years old at the time of the disappearance.
401
00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:05.200
The warrant alleges that her DNA was found in aush's backpack.
402
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:08.519
In Foster the stokes person, he questions the validity and
403
00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:10.200
the relevance of this connection.
404
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:12.680
Of course, and this brings us into the very complex
405
00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:17.400
world of applying modern forensic science to very old, very
406
00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:22.480
cold cases. The use of hair and environmental DNA, especially
407
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:26.480
decades later, is incredibly problematic. What do you mean by that, Well,
408
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:30.160
when forensic experts talk about hair DNA, they always emphasize
409
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:33.519
that it is notoriously hit or miss for definitively placing
410
00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:37.319
someone at a scene. Why because hair and tiny DNA
411
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:39.920
samples are just so easily transferable.
412
00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:43.039
To make that really accessible for you listening, we have
413
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:46.160
to remember that a single hair like say, a direct
414
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:49.839
preserved blood sample. It can transfer through anything, through clothing,
415
00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:52.519
car seeds, shared spaces, even just through the air.
416
00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:55.119
It's the difference between finding the person themselves at the
417
00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:57.920
crime scene versus finding some residue they might have left
418
00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:01.279
days earlier somewhere else, which was then passively transferred onto
419
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:04.079
the item in question. For investigators, that DNA is really
420
00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:06.279
only meaningful if it can be backed up by other
421
00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:09.720
robust direct evidence linking the deadmen's to the timeline of
422
00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:10.240
the abduction.
423
00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:13.359
If it stands alone, as Foster suggests it does, he
424
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:15.240
calls it a pretty thin connection.
425
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:19.079
And the warrants also relied heavily on witness testimonies, but
426
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:23.200
even those are reportedly contradictory. There's a witness named Thad
427
00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:26.599
Melonchimee who claimed he heard one of the deadman daughters
428
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:27.720
confess at a party.
429
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:31.640
A party confession sounds flimsy, it can be.
430
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:34.240
And on the other side, you have a witness named
431
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:38.440
Micky Cooper who reportedly provided information that completely contradicts the
432
00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:42.359
police's theory, suggesting there are other avenues the police should
433
00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:43.640
have been pursuing all along.
434
00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:47.920
And there's more. Skip Foster, the spokesperson he stressed that
435
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.319
certain exculpatory evidence was left out of the warrants. What's
436
00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:54.759
exculpatory evidence, It's information that would tend to clear the
437
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.640
subjects of guilt or at least complicate the narrative of
438
00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:01.480
their guilt. Specifically, he says that Connie Deadman, the mother,
439
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:05.799
and Sarah Deadman, another daughter, both passed polygraph tests when
440
00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:08.079
they were questioned about the disappearance.
441
00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:10.079
And that detail was omitted from the warrant application.
442
00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:14.559
That's what he claims, and that omission is legally very contentious. Now,
443
00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:18.039
polygraph tests are almost never admissible in court, but they
444
00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:21.000
are very commonly used in investigations to help gauge a
445
00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:22.039
person's credibility.
446
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:25.559
So by leaving out the fact that two key subjects
447
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:28.640
pass their tests from a document that's designed to establish
448
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:32.119
probable cause to investigate them further, the police are essentially
449
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:35.680
presenting an incomplete picture to the judge signing the warrant.
450
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:37.519
And the defense would view that as an attempt to
451
00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:40.519
stack the deck right to build a narrative for probable
452
00:21:40.599 --> 00:21:44.640
cause that only includes the incriminating evidence while ignoring the
453
00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:47.279
context that might weaken their request for a search.
454
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:51.519
Precisely and then finally you have these text exchanges between
455
00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:54.960
the dead men's sisters. In them, they revealed fears about
456
00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:57.160
their father's potential implication in the case.
457
00:21:57.359 --> 00:21:59.599
The police won't see that as an admission of guilt.
458
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.039
Schoster interprets those messages completely differently. He says they're not
459
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.839
admissions of guilt or knowledge, but are actually entirely plausible
460
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:12.200
reactions to decades of intense police pressure and the shock
461
00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:15.319
of suddenly being named in these high profile search warrants.
462
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.720
And the family is unified. They are maintaining their innocence
463
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:22.039
and are publicly addressing the investigation, which is a very
464
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:24.839
unusual move for suspects who are under this kind of
465
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:25.720
intense scrutiny.
466
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:29.240
And what's so fascinating here is that while we're completely
467
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:33.599
immersed in these granular, ambiguous details of the asha degree investigation,
468
00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:37.599
the confusing nine to one one call, the ambiguous DNA,
469
00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:41.880
the vehicle controversy, this one long unsolved mystery, it really
470
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:45.599
brings into sharp relief these massive systemic trends within the
471
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:48.599
criminal justice system as a whole, and particularly in North Carolina.
472
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:51.200
North Carolina is the stage for this tragedy, right, and
473
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:55.559
this states incredibly high volume of unsolved violent crime provides
474
00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:58.799
some really crucial context for why a case, even one
475
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:01.119
that gets as much national at tension as I should degrees,
476
00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:03.440
can just languish for twenty five years.
477
00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:05.680
Let's look at the data. We have numbers from twenty
478
00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:08.680
twenty two. The violent crime rate in North Carolina stood
479
00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:11.480
at four hundred and five per one hundred thousand residents.
480
00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:13.319
As it compared to the rest of the country.
481
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:15.839
It was notably six percent higher than the national average,
482
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:18.119
which was three hundred and eighty one per hundred thousand.
483
00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:20.160
It's a little higher, a little higher, but that rate
484
00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:22.799
isn't just high. It has been rapidly escalating and it's
485
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:25.640
outpacing the rest of the nation. Between twenty twelve and
486
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:29.359
twenty twenty two, violent crime actually increased by fifteen percent
487
00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:30.160
in North Carolina.
488
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.400
Wow, And what was the national trend during that time?
489
00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:36.319
If you contrast that with the national trend, the US
490
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:39.440
actually saw a two percent decrease in violent crime during
491
00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:42.839
that same decade. The implication there is pretty significant.
492
00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:46.480
So, just based on that data, that fifteen percent crime increase,
493
00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:51.640
it suggests a severe and growing strain on the resources
494
00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:53.440
of local police forces in that state.
495
00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:54.279
That's exactly it.
496
00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:57.319
If the volume of violent crime is rising that dramatically
497
00:23:57.319 --> 00:23:59.920
in your state while it's decreasing nationally, it means you
498
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.759
your local departments are constantly being pulled toward immediate, fresh cases,
499
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:07.279
and that directly limits the personnel and the funding they
500
00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:09.279
can dedicate to cold cases like hashes.
501
00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:13.039
And the data on homicide specifically is even more concerning
502
00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:16.640
for the state's resources. Homicide increase sharply by sixty four
503
00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:19.200
percent in North Carolina during that twenty twelve to twenty
504
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:19.960
twenty two period.
505
00:24:20.119 --> 00:24:20.920
Sixty four percent.
506
00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:24.119
Yes, And when fresh homicides are consuming all of your
507
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:28.400
major investigative resources, your cold case units, they struggle immensely
508
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:31.119
to get the dedicated time they need for these complex,
509
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:33.240
decades old forensic reviews.
510
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:36.119
And it's not just violent crime. The sheer volume of
511
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:39.200
property crime over two thousand per TWE hundred thousand and51200:24:39.279 --> 00:24:42.599
twenty twenty two is six percent higher than the US51300:24:42.680 --> 00:24:46.279
national average. All of this high volume crime just requires51400:24:46.279 --> 00:24:48.960
so much law enforcement time and it diverts attention from51500:24:49.000 --> 00:24:53.240
the few but highly complex unsolved missing persons cases.51600:24:53.279 --> 00:24:55.720
So this all raises a really important question. In a51700:24:55.839 --> 00:24:58.680
high volume crime environment like that, how effective is the51800:24:58.720 --> 00:25:00.799
system at actually solved crimes, and the.51900:25:00.839 --> 00:25:02.960
Data shows a persistent struggle, right it does.52000:25:03.000 --> 00:25:05.920
In twenty twenty two, a significant sixty five percent of52100:25:06.000 --> 00:25:09.480
violent crimes in North Carolina were not solved or cleared.52200:25:09.640 --> 00:25:12.319
As they say, that's compared to sixty two percent nationally.52300:25:12.799 --> 00:25:15.079
So North Carolina struggles just a little bit more than52400:25:15.119 --> 00:25:17.799
the average state and clearing these cases, which means there52500:25:17.880 --> 00:25:20.680
is a larger and larger backlog of unresolved violence.52600:25:20.880 --> 00:25:23.880
When you drill down on specific crimes, does it get worse?52700:25:24.279 --> 00:25:27.359
It gets dark. Robbery, which is a violent offense that52800:25:27.519 --> 00:25:30.759
usually involves witnesses or physical evidence, was the violent crime52900:25:30.759 --> 00:25:33.119
that was least frequently solved in North Carolina in twenty53000:25:33.160 --> 00:25:37.039
twenty two. A massive seventy one percent of robberies went unsolved.53100:25:37.279 --> 00:25:41.400
Seventy one percent. That just underscores the systemic difficulty of53200:25:41.440 --> 00:25:45.359
achieving clearance even on cases that have fresh leads. So53300:25:45.440 --> 00:25:49.000
for a cold case like ashes, which relies on decades old,53400:25:49.079 --> 00:25:54.000
ambiguous evidence, the difficulty is just multiplied exponentially.53500:25:54.119 --> 00:25:56.400
And shifting back for a moment, back to that original53600:25:56.480 --> 00:26:01.359
runaway narrative, it's so important to contextualize the true vulnerability53700:26:01.400 --> 00:26:04.400
of runaways and what are called thrown away children back53800:26:04.400 --> 00:26:07.000
in the era of Asha's disappearance.53900:26:06.559 --> 00:26:08.799
Right you're talking about the Nismart two study.54000:26:08.599 --> 00:26:12.559
Exactly, the National Incident Studies of missing, abused, runaway and54100:26:12.599 --> 00:26:15.200
thrown away children, and it was conducted right around that time,54200:26:15.240 --> 00:26:17.680
from nineteen ninety seven to nineteen ninety nine.54300:26:18.160 --> 00:26:20.799
Can you clarify for us the difference between a runaway54400:26:20.799 --> 00:26:23.640
and a thrown away child as defined by that study.54500:26:23.680 --> 00:26:26.039
I think that distinction is really crucial for you to understand.54600:26:26.279 --> 00:26:29.480
Absolutely. A runaway is a child who leaves home without permission,54700:26:29.759 --> 00:26:33.000
usually intending to stay away. A thrown away child, as54800:26:33.000 --> 00:26:35.680
defined by the study, is a child who is explicitly54900:26:35.720 --> 00:26:38.759
told to leave home or is just abandoned by their caretaker.55000:26:38.839 --> 00:26:42.119
So the distinction is about the child's agency in the departure.55100:26:41.920 --> 00:26:45.160
It is, and it frames the level of immediate danger therein.55200:26:45.359 --> 00:26:49.359
The numbers from that study are just staggering. Niesmart Iwi55300:26:49.680 --> 00:26:52.759
estimated that one million, six hundred and eighty two thousand,55400:26:52.920 --> 00:26:56.599
nine hundred young people had a runaway or thrown away55500:26:56.599 --> 00:26:59.079
episode in nineteen ninety nine alone.55600:26:59.160 --> 00:27:01.759
That is an immense population of vulnerable children, and a.55700:27:01.759 --> 00:27:04.680
Huge portion of those children were considered truly at risk.55800:27:05.039 --> 00:27:07.440
Over one point one million, or seventy one percent, were55900:27:07.519 --> 00:27:10.240
estimated to be endangered. It's so easy to talk about56000:27:10.240 --> 00:27:13.000
these kids as statistics, but when you realize that Asha,56100:27:13.039 --> 00:27:15.759
at nine years old, was part of that most vulnerable group,56200:27:16.559 --> 00:27:18.680
it just makes the failure to find her that much56300:27:18.680 --> 00:27:19.480
more devastating.56400:27:19.599 --> 00:27:22.240
What were the main factors for being considered endangered?56500:27:22.480 --> 00:27:25.640
Well, endangerment factors included physical or sexual abuse or the56600:27:25.680 --> 00:27:27.559
fear of abuse if they returned home. That was the56700:27:27.559 --> 00:27:30.240
most common factor at twenty one percent of these endangered kids.56800:27:30.319 --> 00:27:33.559
Others included things like substance dependency at nineteen percent, or56900:27:33.640 --> 00:27:35.079
just being extremely young.57000:27:34.920 --> 00:27:36.519
And Asha falls into that category.57100:27:36.880 --> 00:27:40.880
She falls squarely into that last category. Eighteen percent of57200:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.160
endangered youth were thirteen or younger. Asha was nine. This57300:27:45.240 --> 00:27:47.559
shows that if she did leave of her own free57400:27:47.599 --> 00:27:50.359
will for any reason at all, known or unknown, she57500:27:50.440 --> 00:27:53.640
was immediately classified among the highest risk group of children57600:27:53.720 --> 00:27:54.880
in the entire country.57700:27:55.240 --> 00:27:57.799
And what's also striking is how few of these incidents57800:27:57.960 --> 00:28:00.000
actually result in law enforcement getting involved.57900:28:00.440 --> 00:28:03.079
This study found that only twenty one percent of all58000:28:03.200 --> 00:28:06.559
runaways and thrownaways were even reported missing to the authorities58100:28:06.599 --> 00:28:10.039
to help locate them, and even more shocking, sixty eight58200:28:10.079 --> 00:28:12.680
percent of caretakers did not contact the police at all.58300:28:12.799 --> 00:28:15.359
Why not often because they either knew where the child58400:28:15.480 --> 00:28:18.519
was or they just didn't think police involvement was necessary.58500:28:18.880 --> 00:28:22.720
So this is vital context. If Asha really did lease58600:28:22.799 --> 00:28:26.599
on her own her situation a young black female child58700:28:26.640 --> 00:28:29.119
in a high crime state, it immediately placed her at58800:28:29.160 --> 00:28:32.079
immense risk. And the lack of clear context in those58900:28:32.079 --> 00:28:35.400
first few hours, combined with her parents conflicting initial story,59000:28:35.720 --> 00:28:39.160
it just ensured the investigation began with massive ambiguity, and59100:28:39.200 --> 00:28:41.599
that made it hard to dedicate the maximum resources right59200:28:41.599 --> 00:28:42.680
when they were needed the most.59300:28:42.960 --> 00:28:44.799
And finally, we just have to look at the criminal59400:28:44.880 --> 00:28:47.359
justice system in North Carolina through the critical lens of59500:28:47.440 --> 00:28:51.599
racial disparity. This is particularly relevant given that Asher Degree59600:28:51.680 --> 00:28:54.759
is a black child. The data really highlights the different59700:28:54.759 --> 00:28:58.359
outcomes for victims and offenders based on race in that state.59800:28:58.599 --> 00:29:01.160
The statistics are pretty clear, aren't they They are.59900:29:01.359 --> 00:29:04.720
In twenty twenty two, black people were victims of violent60000:29:04.799 --> 00:29:07.519
crime at a rate three point five times higher than60100:29:07.559 --> 00:29:11.920
the white violent victimization rate in North Carolina. That disparity60200:29:11.960 --> 00:29:14.519
in just being exposed to victimization, it creates a much60300:29:14.599 --> 00:29:16.559
higher burden on the community.60400:29:16.079 --> 00:29:18.839
And that disparity it extends to the enforcement side of60500:29:18.839 --> 00:29:19.519
things as well.60600:29:19.680 --> 00:29:22.079
Yes, black people were arrested for violent crimes that are60700:29:22.119 --> 00:29:24.880
rate four point nine times higher than white people, and60800:29:24.920 --> 00:29:27.359
this of course contributes to the disparity you see in60900:29:27.400 --> 00:29:30.720
the correctional system where black adults in North Carolina are61000:29:30.720 --> 00:29:33.359
three point six times more likely to be in prison61100:29:33.480 --> 00:29:34.599
compared to white adults.61200:29:34.799 --> 00:29:37.440
But the most tragic and the most relevant disparity for61300:29:37.519 --> 00:29:41.160
this particular case is what we see nationally in unsolved cases.61400:29:41.559 --> 00:29:44.920
National data from twenty twenty one shows that homicides of61500:29:44.960 --> 00:29:47.960
black victims were twice as likely to go unsolved as61600:29:47.960 --> 00:29:51.920
homicides of white victims. All of these systemic challenges, the61700:29:52.000 --> 00:29:55.480
high crime rates, the low clearance rates, the inherent racial disparities,61800:29:55.839 --> 00:29:59.720
they form this complex, challenging backdrop against which the asha61900:29:59.799 --> 00:30:03.480
degree case continues to be investigated, and it potentially affects62000:30:03.519 --> 00:30:06.880
the priority and the sustained resources that get dedicated to62100:30:06.920 --> 00:30:08.920
achieving justice for victims of color.62200:30:09.039 --> 00:30:12.160
This case just remains a devastating study in conflicting narratives.62300:30:12.240 --> 00:30:15.039
We started with that chaotic morning, the family's high stress,62400:30:15.319 --> 00:30:17.359
very confusing initial account.62500:30:17.000 --> 00:30:19.319
The unusual formality of that nine to one one call62600:30:19.400 --> 00:30:22.319
compared to the mother's frantic screaming outside.62700:30:21.839 --> 00:30:24.480
Harold's immediate knowledge of the missing bags, and then that62800:30:24.559 --> 00:30:28.039
strange critical absence of a coat in freezing, stormy weather, and.62900:30:28.000 --> 00:30:30.799
That confusion just extended to the evidence. You have that63000:30:31.079 --> 00:30:34.319
bizarre mismatch in time between the two thirty am trucker63100:30:34.400 --> 00:30:37.480
sightings and the six first three eight am neighbor sighting.63200:30:37.400 --> 00:30:39.880
The mysterious new kids on the Block shirt in the63300:30:39.920 --> 00:30:45.440
library book found a year later, suggesting this dark grooming scenario,63400:30:46.079 --> 00:30:49.519
and then the ambiguous shed evidence that provided almost no63500:30:49.920 --> 00:30:51.279
forensic certainty at all.63600:30:51.440 --> 00:30:54.000
And now in the present day, you have this highly63700:30:54.039 --> 00:30:59.079
controversial modern investigation targeting the Debin family based on search63800:30:59.119 --> 00:31:02.240
warrants that have just been aggressively challenged by their spokesperson.63900:31:02.400 --> 00:31:06.720
Challenge because of the significant vehicle discrepancy, the questionable date64000:31:06.759 --> 00:31:07.799
of ownership.64100:31:07.359 --> 00:31:11.279
Transfer, and the inclusion of this disputed DNA evidence right64200:31:11.279 --> 00:31:13.640
alongside the omission of the fact that two of them64300:31:13.680 --> 00:31:14.839
passed polygraph tests.64400:31:14.920 --> 00:31:18.119
The complexities here just underscore the importance of allowing the64500:31:18.200 --> 00:31:22.119
judicial process to unfold transparently, just as the Deadman family64600:31:22.160 --> 00:31:27.000
spokesperson urged without succumbing to this premature public judgment that's64700:31:27.279 --> 00:31:30.440
based solely on the very selective narrative of a probable64800:31:30.480 --> 00:31:31.160
cause warrant.64900:31:31.359 --> 00:31:32.880
At the end of the day, we want the truth65000:31:32.920 --> 00:31:35.519
to come to light, regardless of who that truth implicates,65100:31:35.880 --> 00:31:37.319
and we want Asha to be found.65200:31:37.559 --> 00:31:39.440
You know, if we look back at that Nismart study,65300:31:39.960 --> 00:31:43.200
the sheer volume of runaway and thrown away children almost65400:31:43.279 --> 00:31:46.680
one point seven million in that one year, is just immense.65500:31:47.279 --> 00:31:50.880
Yet the vast majority of those children, ninety nine point65600:31:50.880 --> 00:31:53.640
six percent of them, they returned home to their families65700:31:53.720 --> 00:31:55.559
or were located within that study year.65800:31:55.799 --> 00:31:58.200
So what does the failure to find Usha Degree after65900:31:58.279 --> 00:32:01.160
all this time and all this scrutiny tell us not66000:32:01.279 --> 00:32:04.480
just about this one particular crime, but about the systemic66100:32:04.559 --> 00:32:09.000
challenges facing that tiny remaining fraction of missing children, that66200:32:09.079 --> 00:32:12.680
persistent point four percent who never ever return.66300:32:12.680 --> 00:32:15.240
Especially when you factor in the persistent struggle that North66400:32:15.240 --> 00:32:18.680
Carolina has in clearing violent cases and addressing the racial66500:32:18.680 --> 00:32:21.160
disparities in who becomes a victim.66600:32:20.960 --> 00:32:23.920
It suggests that the investigative gaps where these most vulnerable66700:32:24.000 --> 00:32:27.640
children vanished are not just isolated incidents, but maybe they're66800:32:27.680 --> 00:32:31.599
deep seated challenges within a strained system, challenges that often66900:32:31.640 --> 00:32:34.519
only surface when a case like Asha Degrees forces us67000:32:34.559 --> 00:32:36.279
all to look a little closer.67100:32:36.119 --> 00:32:38.519
And we have to ask, for every high profile case67200:32:38.599 --> 00:32:41.759
like this one, how many other vulnerable children vanish without67300:32:41.799 --> 00:32:43.759
ever receiving this level of sustained attention.67400:32:44.200 --> 00:32:47.359
This was the last known. The facts are limited, the67500:32:47.440 --> 00:32:51.359
record ends where the answers disappear. Until more is known,67600:32:51.799 --> 00:32:53.519
this case remains unresolved.
